What to charge for a logo?

[YNOT]

I don't know if this is in the right thread or not, but I'm just curious as to what is a typical price to charge for a company logo.

I know alot depends on the complexity and time involved in creating it, but in general, what would be a fair price?

Does it depend on the type of business?

Any help would be appreciated...thanks!

[malephika]

Basically, you charge based on the type of the business and on the size of the company. The complexity of the logo itself has nothing to do with the price (professionally speaking, if it is just for fun like some kids are doing on the Internet they care more about complexity than anything else :-/).

There isn't a fixed price, though, you would know it after a few years of experience. But, for you to have an idea how these prices can change, once my teacher told me that I could easily create a logo for a small company and charge just $10 and the same way I could create a logo for a huge company and charge $100,000 (complete visual identity, of course).

Of course, keep in mind that beginners charge much less than pros, but you could still easily make $100 for a logo you make for a small to medium company.

[pie_man]

id charge between $10 - 20 thats mostly what i get offered

[Segeta]

ah, last time...uhmm it was $ 40.

if i was you i should charge, $20/30

[YNOT]

Wow...you guys work for cheap! I've been charging around $100.00 to $200.00 lately and I wasn't sure if I was charging enough. I feel my freelancing prices are extremely reasonable, especially considering the studio I used to work at charged $65.00 an hour for designwork.

I mean, I take a lot of time and make numerous layouts for the customers (sometimes over 8 hours in concepting different looks and styles). I work back and forth with them until they are happy. I'd certainly charge alot less if the logo was simple and the customer knew exactly what they wanted, but usually they tell me to design something and all they really tell me is kinda what colors they want. I usually try to get a feel for the customers personality and such and that helps me to determine what direction to go in and how much time to put into it.

Thanks for your comments...anyone else?

[pie_man]

yeah but you are pro's im an internet hobbyist - i thought thats what you were talking about

[VRonline]

Yes, I charge around $50 or so dollars

[joy]

$5.00 or less

i mean, if it was easy to make..

[rainy]

to YNOT I'm with you on it... I do the same thing: give at least 5 original (not the same logo with different colors) concepts to choose from (usually 7) and unlimited modifications untill client is happy. I charge $150-200 and thinking of taking it up to $250 soon.

[YNOT]

Originally posted by rainy
to YNOT I'm with you on it... I do the same thing: give at least 5 original (not the same logo with different colors) concepts to choose from (usually 7) and unlimited modifications untill client is happy. I charge $150-200 and thinking of taking it up to $250 soon.

Great...I was thinking I wasn't charging enough. Maybe I'm about right afterall.

Anyone else?

[Segeta]

$ 100? $200? for a logo? no, to high i think. Unless it's a very VERY important project.

[YNOT]

The logos I'm designing are for custom tire and wheel shops, street rod shops and some automotive paint stores. These are not "huge' companies, but certainly big enough to afford at least $200.00.

I would certainly charge less if it was for a very small company, or as I said above, if they know exactly what they want and all I have to do is lay it out. I get so many people that have me jump through hoops for hours nitpicking colors and layouts and such...I honestly charge a lot less than I should for some jobs.

I guess it all depends on the companies themselves.

[rainy]

if you do it fo fun, or to put something in your portolio - it's one thing. I did couple of logos for free some time ago when I was starting. But now when I have to make living out of designing logos and such, I don't think $200 is a lot. It's at least 10 hours of work (I charge $20/hr for some projects). And I'm not talking about 5-minute logo, when you make a logo without even considering your clients market and goals. !!!

[jerrymathers]

I charge $50/hour for almost everything

[B-man]

Originally posted by Segeta
$ 100? $200? for a logo? no, to high i think. Unless it's a very VERY important project.

Do you design for a living?
Please raise your price man, you have no idea how much you are ruining for your fellow artists that dream of making gfx for a living.

I usually charge $200-600 for a logo, and I dont consider it very expensive.

[Segeta]

Hmm..... i mean, my last client wanted a layout and logo, i asked for layout $350 and $ 50 for logo, so $400, I am 15 years old, i think that's enough for me ^_^.

But thanks for the tip, next time ill ask $ 100.

[JonMichael]

Most of the places I make logos for are ezboards and clans that arent gonna last for more than two years. If I get any REAL requests I will go much higher in prices. Take in to consideration that some people have logos for download on their site.

[bigyou]

hmmm ... i think you could and sould ask for more. keep in mind that a logo is something very important for a compagny. it can give a lot of information about a business and can change the perception people have about it.

so considering this, you could easily charge 700$ to 800$ for a single logo, and that does NOT include the business card and the letterhead.

one of my friend made a logo for a local hockey team and he charged that, 800$. He could have easily asked for more.

don't be shy guys, you can ask for more !

[lemur1]

The difference between charging 10.00 bucks verses 1000.00 dollars is this: are you teenager wanting some gas money for your car or a College graduate with a degree in graphic design and or marketing?

Amateur hobbyist or Professional?

[visualriddle]

I think a logo should cost around 200 - 500 bucks if the correct planning and work goes into it.

I'm usually too worried that if I charge high, the client will say no and go somewhere else. Since I'd rather have the job for less money than no job at all, I end up lowering my rates (sometimes). I wish I could stop doing this.

[Omengeorge]

i guess the charge differs from place to place too..and the most important thing about the payment you receive is about the status of the company you are making the logo for.

one of the largest proffesional design payouts in india has been Rs.98.4 lakhs for the ICICI logo, which converted into usd is approx $218,766.00
but this is for a big worldwide company too
normally in calcutta designers are ready and willing to make rough shod logo designs/most of the time part ripped, for just about rs.1000-2000, thats about 30-40 $usd,
the ones who are willing to work for les make the market go down, but they dont even give quality products..but thats what the companies want to give max for design..it just aint that important to have good design at higher cost..
As jamie said..many times you gotta qoute down, mainly if u are freelancing.....but it all depends on what ur instincts tell you about the client sitting with you and also, how big the company is...
there is no hourly payment system here..just work produced/work payed for...
max i have personally received for the branding exercise of a company is Rs.14,500...which includes the entire re-branding..not just the logo.....for Sun India international...but then thats a 100crore company...
but one thing..if sum1 asks me to make a logo for them, and the companys known around, i'll make sure i add that job to my portfolio no matter what...coz i think the logo is the essense of the company, and if u do it rite..its worth doin it for free even...it' about my satisfaction..
omen

[Harp2]

YNOT,

This is long and I hope it's worth it for you to read it.

(Segata)
Being young and/or living at home with the rents, you might face some credibility issues, but put ONLY your very best work in your port and pay to have it printed on good stock and you'll be on your way! Your portfolio is like a Samurai's katana... it's your life blood. Only client's tesimonials and word of mouth can make or break it. Start low ($250 = logos) and move rates up as you get more work to showboat to prospective clients. That having been said...

Pricing:

Often, the real deal for freelance designers (as many other freelance pros) is: "Can I eat this week?" Having no cash makes a designer hungry (for work as well as twinkis), which is dangerous (no, not the cream filling, having no work), as it makes us do stupid things that we may pay for later, ten fold. As in doing a logo or even a corporate ID for $250 because you didn't want the girl, guy or agency down the street to get the job/work because you needed the money, so you low ball the bid to win it.

So, the next time they come back you have to charge them the same rate (unless it's years later or you've been named the greatest designer in the world over night ...which is my title, so you're SOL :grin: ). If you're well fed the week they come back for you to do more work and you charge them your standard rate, they will ask for and expect justification of the added monies/fees. Also, "word or mouth" is still a common way I and many other designers get work. Brand X Company, who you did the work for cheap, tells Joe Bagadoughnuts from XYZ company "Yeah, we got a kick ass ID package from YNOT for $2.53!!! Joe and everyone else they talk to is going to expect similar pricing (project size dependent). This is just a FYI, as I know you're young and may or may not have many bills to pay yet, but that day will most likely come and you'll have to make some tough choices about your rate card as far as how much flexibility there is in your pricing and/or how hungry you are (for food, bills or the new Jenna Jameson DVD).

Also remeber to post a sign over your work space that reads:

"Good, Fast, Cheap... Pick any two!"
Most people get the message.

My Rates:

Logos: $250-$650 (w/Printing: $500-$1,000 min.)
Corporate IDs: $1,000 min. (w/paper & printing $1,500)

All rates are flexible! I get 50% up front after doing 3 different electronic thumbnails in PS. All w/printing is with my printer of choice, they want someone else, then my rate is usually more. Remember to work with the printer from the get go to see what they need from you and vice-versa.

Hope this mess was helpfull.

"For governments to be run, rules must be kept. For battles to be won, rules must be broken." -Sun Tsu "The Art of War"


Harp!

[Omengeorge]

hey dont know about ynot....but i was real glad to see ur post harp..it says a lot that i've been through..
when u start up you cant exactly hardball and say i want this much and thats my proffesional payment.
After three years of doing corporate assignments for companies like toyota, whirlpool, H&A etc, i now have a port worth boastin of, with 34 perm clients in the roster. but being young you get discounted a lot, unless you make a firm stand.
Now ppl have got to know my name so its not that tough, but i disagree witht the notion that you shouldnt do work for cheap if your startin out. if the company is big enough and the account worth it, then most prob you get the money you want, but evenif you dont, it will look good on your portfolio, so its worth it.
later on reffering to these very works is what will get u up, and thats wat i think.
And yeah, the port should indeed be printed in the best way possible!
Love,
omen

[Harp2]

Omengeorge,

I agree, once you, and more importantly, the quality of your work is established, you then get clients. After you start getting new clients, you get to start trying to keep them all... not easy when new, young and/or skilled designers are coming out of the woodwork daily, if not by the minute. Many undercutting the market by working out of their parent's house. Some good, some not so good.

Standing out from the crowd is hard, but these days their doesn't seem to be alot of new blood in print, marketing and package design, so maybe there is an "in" there for new designers? Of late, I found some fun, small print projects that make me want to go back to it more of late. Only difficulties I've had is that my old illustrator friend came into big money and is retired, so now I'm learning new skillz in Illustrator 10. Yeah, buddy! Don't be surprised to see new posts (in the hundreds) from me crying for help with this app. lol Regardless, thanks for sharing Omengeorge, I'm greatful to find I'm not the only one to have had these (sometimes) painful growth lessons.

Harp!

[mahaynes]

I have three packages ranging from 350-900 per logo... and I am the cheapest in town... others in the area charge around $3000 for logo design... I think that you are selling yourself short. If people want a professional design they will pay you for it. Don't budge on your prices... keep true to your art. People will pay for your designs, it's your time and talent they are paying for.
Good luck.

[McICE]

If you dont plan on falling into a career, or establishing yourself as an up and coming name as a designer, then by all means keep charging the price of movie tickets..it wont make a difference if thats the case. But there's several reasons that people charge into the hundreds for their work, and only a few revolve around the time they spend on it. If you want people to take you seriously, for example, then you have to charge serious money and do serious work to back it up. Of course you start low, but as you progress, and you're in business longer, you increase, but dont jack up, your prices. By low...I mean somewhere between 100 and 200, this is because graphics design is skilled labor; not everyone can do it, and so that means it's kind of in demand. Also, you have to remember that a logo is like a tatoo, it will stick with you for a long time after you get it, so that means a logo is one of the most valuable things a business has, like your name is to you.

If you want to work for peanuts and table scraps, get a job at a fast food restaurant or a clinic, but graphics design is high quality, skilled, well-off pay work, and logo design is a costly service when done right.

I also have a question to bring to the table. I wonder if anyone knows where I might find local graphics design conventions. You see, Ive been working in web design and graphics design for about six years ( im only 17, mind you), and I've recently gathered some fresh hands in an endeavor to start a logo design company, and a web design division of the company to go along with it if it goes well, to make more money. All the financial considerations are made, and the startup costs are lined up (would you believe it?).

Now, according to the numbers I came up with, we have decided we need exactly 31 other skilled graphics designers ( the 32nd being myself) to work a 2-logo-design-a-day schedule for five days a week, ten months out the year. I'm also looking into how we can provide some benefits (a recent cut in the financial plan allows these benefits to exist). There's some other figures involved, but I wont go into them (because you wouldn't believe me if I told you). My point is that one of the solutions we came up with is to attend some conventions and gatherings, and draft the the required designers from them. Online drafting has failed me many times in the past, so I didn't even mention it to the group as an option. So does anyone have any suggestions?

[Harp]

McICE,

Almost a day late and dollar short, but Photoshop World is September 30 - October 2 in Miami Beach. Some of the best professional people, trainers and experts will be there... an ideal atmosphere for scouting talent and recruiting designers. The link to the website is: http://www.photoshopworld.com/.

...even though you said online recruiting didn't work well for you
You may also want to check these sites:


http://www.tjobs.com/

http://www.allfreelancework.com/

http://contractedwork.com/rt.cfm?CatID=16

http://www.totalfreelance.com/

http://www.sitepoint.com/subcat/108

http://www.programmingbids.com/free...te_designs.html

http://www.freelancers.net/jobs.html

http://www.guru.com/

http://listbid.com/

http://www.webservices.org/index.php/forum/message/242/

http://www.1234-find-web-designers.org/

http://www.projectspring.com/freelance/webdesign.shtml

http://www.aquentpartners.com/caree...earch/index.cfm (formal design jobs)

I like your website and your identity design work.

Best of luck,

Harp!

[McICE]

You sure you have the right mcICE?..i dont have a website that i know of....but if you've seen some work and liked it, thanx all the same.

Well, the only reason online drafting didn't work is because people were not serious, not to say it couldnt work, because it could just as easily as local operation being the way I have it structured is that a website is our base of operations anyway.

But I'm from michigan, and still kinda young, so I can't travel cross country for the resources just yet,thank you tho.

Have any of you ever considered turning your skill into a full scale business? I know it's crossed your minds once or twice.

[Takaishi]

I usually charge anywhere from $50 - $250. I agree though. It depends on who you're making the logo for. :p

[Hyunkel]

Originally posted by Segeta
Hmm..... i mean, my last client wanted a layout and logo, i asked for layout $350 and $ 50 for logo, so $400, I am 15 years old, i think that's enough for me ^_^.

But thanks for the tip, next time ill ask $ 100.

You're only 15 years old an your earned 400 $ !? Damnit, I wanna live in USA ! ;)

[System0012]

Charging a 80$ for a layout and logo + 5 day support something like that acutally sounds resonable , because I'am not at U.S. where you can charge so much for anything like that, the govt. would probably shoot me lol

[tsu]

I usually do this stuff for free..of course, im young and stupid

[phunk]

a logo that is used worldwide starts (starts!) with 1000 US$
nationwide would be at least 500 US$ but that is fucking dumped. forgive my wording but that dumping ruins the whole business.

[McICE]

I dont understand what you mean about dumping?

[phunk]

getting a job throught reducing the price far below anything acceptable and/or below anything that would be charged from a professional


http://dictionary.com/
selling goods abroad at a price below that charged in the domestic market

[McICE]

Where Im from thas called loss leader business...altho in service...is not so much loss as it is leading...the competition

[shecky]

Graphic Artists Guild Handbook : Pricing & Ethical Guidelines (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932102115/qid=1071026059//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-5899581-0912856?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

if you are a pro, you charge in the neighborhood of what that book says. if you are a hack, then you charge whatever someone is willing to pay you.

large companies rarely hire someone to do a logo - they hire someone to do an "identity" and thats why the price can range from 5 to 7 figures for that level of work - thats not the kind of work a freelancer is going to get.

for me personally, i don't take a project on for less than $1000 unless its only going to be a day or 2 worth of work. real logo design can take as long as many, many weeks to do properly, and that time costs real money.

[McICE]

Ah...I see where youre going. I have never taken more than a couple days to design an identity which fits my clients satisfaction, but charging a low price isnt neccesarily accepting scrapings.

You see, as long as I've been doing it, I can say none of my work is crap and it very well might be worth into the thousands, but the point of charging so lowly is to get under the radar...especially as a new business...thus putting me ahead on some level, and establishing my name as a quality servicemen, which is the exact advantage that any business needs.

Once you establish you're self as a heavy card, then you jack up your pricing gracefully. If you build it..they WILL come...if you tear it down and make it bigger...they follow.

How many contracts do you get on a daily basis? Tell me that.

[phunk]

makes sense. kinda.

what ya going to do if you're settled and raising your prices.. BUT then again someone new comes in and starts like you did - by dumping?

clients that want dumped prices will always want that and will change the firm when someone is cheaper (or you're not that cheap anymore)

[SoulScream]

Heh... clients aren't as stupid as some of us think. If someone can buy a logo/identity for the prices the posters in the beginning of this thread offer (10$ - 30$), they will know you won't get the quality you get when you go to a 'real' designer. Eventually clients will avoid designers who ask these unrealistic prices.

[phunk]

depends on the size of the client's firm.

[shecky]

if you are making logos for 10% of what the industry says its worth than you are one or many of a few things:

1) a hack
2) NOT working in the industry, you are working near the industry
3) not confident enough to charge what you are worth, or more likely
4) not talented enough to charge what that kind of work should cost
5) not interested in building a professional business for yourself
6) not interested in long term goals
7) not interested in helping the industry as a whole, because phunk is right, dumping fucks everyone.
8) to ignorant to know any better
9) happy to get paid something for doing something you like, and hell, as far as you are concerned, thats good enough

a kid with a copy of photoshop can make a good logo for $10 every once and a while. someone with experience can make a great logo for $10,000 consistently, every time. As far as 'coming in under the radar' damien is right, companies are not stupid, some 19 yr old kid who is gonna charge $100 for a logo is obviously a bargain basement price, and they can expect to get what they pay for, which, isn't much.

These questions need to be differentiated in terms of amature and pro. there are vastly more amatures on here than pros, so when the question is 'what do i charge for a logo, im an amature' well, fuck... i dunno. i guess $100 is reasonable.

There are a number of levels people work at - from the 13 yr old with daddy's iMac to David Carson. They can both say "i am a designer" but one is taken seriously and one isn't

and as far as the question of "How many contracts do you get on a daily basis" i have 2 answers:

1) none of your business
2) if you really think that getting 10 cheap jobs a week over 2 good jobs a month means you are a better designer then you have no clue what you are talking about.

[B-man]

Amen to that :)

[McICE]

Here's the thing, a PORTFOLIO solves all the issues surrounding whther or not you're the real McCoy.

Loss-leader strategy is employed all over business, and is an excellent tactic as a new comer, given you can prove you are quality and a good servicemen, which you do through good reference, and a portfolio of your work and service record.

The beautiful thing about a loss-leader strategy is that even in design services, its results do put you ahead at least for a short time.

Think of this, a majority of the target market who seeks design and identity services is small business. Granted the most lucrative ae large ones, Small business is usually alot simpler to impress not that I cant impress the best of them), they represent most of the demand and with that in mind...usually a small business is sseeking the highest quality possible at the most affordable pricing, which if you play your cards right, would make you the ideal balance of the two factors.

I hate to quote a horror movie, but in Freddy Vs Jason, Freddy said: "He may get the blood, but I'll get the glory". If you interpret that the way I do, it sounds almost like what you're saying. But...as far as service industries go, your service record is among the first things that speak for you. Not what you charge, but how many you serve is a good indication of your work ethic, your skill, and how reasonable you are a business person. A portfolio, is the same thing, only it makes a statement of your quality, which is the second weight in a clients decision to choose or not choose you.

And BTW, I only asked about how much work you get for research purposes, if I wanted to turn that into a pitfall for your arguement (in any debate in general...not this one tho), I would have been alot more insidious about it. My intent was not to offend or make you raise your defenses, tho.

[Zuiun]

Originally posted by SoulScream
Heh... clients aren't as stupid as some of us think. If someone can buy a logo/identity for the prices the posters in the beginning of this thread offer (10$ - 30$), they will know you won't get the quality you get when you go to a 'real' designer. Eventually clients will avoid designers who ask these unrealistic prices.

There will always been "clients" who don't know the value of design and think in terms of how cheaply they can get away with vs. what sort of quality they can get. These guys will always be small time.

Whether or not a price for a logo is unrealistic really depends on the skill and knowledge of the designer.

I see a lot of people on this forum who have some really impressive design skills, but lack real-world design knowledge. By that, I mean that they can come up with pretty pictures, but those images would often be expensive and difficult to reproduce in print.

A logo design is more than just a pretty picture. It is something that should be able to represent a company in any medium -- be it a business card, or a billboard or a website. It should be reproducable cheaply at any size, and in black and white or in color.

A professional designer knows the printing process thoroughly, as well as the design process. He/she is able to choose a color scheme for a logo that will not give printers headaches (some colors are very difficult to print accurately and consistently), and will be able to provide files with complete instructions for easy and simple use of the logo. He/she is also willing to get to know the company, what they do and also what their competition does so that the logo is not just a unique design, but also a unique fit for the company.

In short, the cost of the logo includes not only the design itself, but all of the knowledge and expertise the designer brings with it.

-- Zu

[McICE]

Exactly what I was trying to say..and along with the comment about the fact that there are some people who truly do not know the full value of a design service and will seek the lowest costing solution....this...unfourtunately( for who tho?), includes most small businesses ( who comprise a majority of your market)

[AsylumX]

The people that charge $50 for a logo, are the same ones that buy a used car at retail. The price sounds good to them, because it pays better than the $5.25 McDonald job they're holding.

I'll at least give a C for effort since you're trying to explore entreprenaurist ventures, however you (and this is a proverbial you btw, directed at those who are guilty of the 'accused crimes') deserve a big fat F for disillusioning businesses and individuals that Good Graphics Come Cheap.

I'm an insurance agent by trade, and my job, as well as my hobby (graphic design), are number games. If I see 15 people a week I can count on 3-4 sales. I'm selling people policies that cost upwards of $3k a year - for the rest of their life. At the same time I could offer these people shittier policies that won't be worth a damn for roughly $500 a year and I could probably count on 5-6 sales.

Do the math. My point is this: Bust your ass and become good at what you want to do. Every person owes that to themselves. When you're confident in your skills you step up and design for $1000 (or replace with your own figure, but goddamnit it better be more than $50) and you get it.

You get it because you talk to people, lots of people. You will get paid that for a design, don't think you won't (but please make sure you can deliver as well.) When this happens you'll hear a large popping sound, that's your head coming out of your ass (Now don't get me wrong, I'm not being condescending, I'm being humorous - you call it ephiphany, I call it pulling your head out of your ass, fuck elogance.)

Now it would take you roughly 20 designs at 50 bucks a pop to equal what you will get for one design. If you satisfy your client, you push for word of mouth, and I mean push.

Referrals are the most important thing you can get out of any sale, it is more important than the sale itself.

Before long, your clients will be recommending you when an associate needs a larger, more complex, and hence more expensive design needed.


This is not rocket science. This is business. Do it for the love, or do it for the money but pick one.

And a little P.S. before I get comments about enjoying your work. You should love your work, but if it's work then you're getting paid for it, and thus should get paid properly.

[McICE]

All I;m saying is that its a large market out there, and...well for one thing 50 bucks...for me..aughta get you a quote and a coupel concepts...but no complete work..lol..I wouldnt consider charging that low because thats a range not even you're portfolio can excuse....

What I AM saying is that chrging upwards of four figures, altho not totally a bad idea because you do still have a nice piece of market....even if you are competiing with tenior big whigs of the industry at that range...is defeating yourself on some level because your making yourself almost completely innaccesible to the more willing to buy, more easily sellable accounts of small business.

I am NOT saying charge anything less than 100-150 bucks.
How you charge DOES in fact have implications as to some part of your professionalism that YOU know you have, and what they will believe you have.

But refusing to be receptive to less than four figures is denying yourself profit.

It's something to think about.

One more thing....why cant you do it for both?...Graphic Desing is an art, too, and you can't be an artist without some form of appreciation for it.

Well you can, but it's not very likely you do it right, or you'll be doign it for long.

[AsylumX]

You do do it for both. Read my whole post including the P.S. next time.

[McICE]

:: read the Post Script::.mm.....::opens his mouth to speak::.....I'm preeeetty sure that wasn't there before, but then...maybe it was.

But IIIII.... dont remember it being there.

But if you say it was...it must've been.

Anyways, good discussion.

[Arcane-Dream]

I've personally been thinking about this, and although this post is somewhat more abigious than the intended ("logo pricing"), it flows in.

I have, for the past 6years of my life, been designing and programming websites for a hobby. I have made several small projects of large-scale size. This hobby, or so I am hopeful (and confident with a 90 avarage in school) will turn into a profession--as I have applied to three colleges offering Ba's in IT, focusing on database, ecommerce, and internet application technology. I am also aware of the requirements to live: money for food, transportation, and the necessities. Having hobbiests design a corporate logo for $50 very much hurts the IT indistry, but I am not to say that they have no 'right' to do this, but should consider the following:

People pay thousands of dollars and dedicate many years of their life to become educated in an industry-specific field--such as internet technology or graphic design. As any education, this education and certification proves a purpose: to make sure the individuals know what they are doing and do not make a critical mistake. Being a hobbiest freelance graphic deisgner might sound like a good idea, but the average graduate and fully qualified GD is approximately 3-5years of post-secondary education. Having a 15year-old (I don't want to single out anyone) highschool student developing a large-scale application/website both hurts the employer and IT field. The many potential security holes and programmatic concerns (such as critical issues of concerency, processing, or security) of a real-world situation cannot be acquired by reading articles whilst sitting in the basement of your parents' ('s) house, it must be learned by a real-world situation.

My point is, that charging $50 for a project that is best suited in the hands of a professional is almost 'unethical'. I suppose, however, if a company want's to be cheap, I (we) will simply starve, and they will be hacked, overloaded, and drained of bandwidth.
It does not necessarily boil down to those that are charging the $50, but the corporatioons that are ignorantly buying for $50.

[McICE]

I agree with the unreasonability of charging 50 dollars...but I dont think that all the....15 year olds of the world who start out with these kind of skills....like I myself did..should be put to pasture or sent to a concentration camp....altho I was 13 when I built my first website.....

I wasn't a hack..I studied java, html (which were basically the two biggest things at the time) just liek any other designer was expected to.

Since then i dipped into php, c++ and some sql, but I am still uncertified,...only because Im too young to get it.

As far as graphic design goes....I think really anyone with the skills can do it..its NOT rocket science. I was 13 when I began using 3ds max...today I can perform clean animation of most cooncepts.

We are not " hurting" the IT industry because ...if you keep in mind how the world is suposed to progress....we are the future of it.

Any professional shouldnt consider me a real threat, but then I dont try to compete with em either. It's just that around my area...there is a lot of uncapitalized market...and very few practicioners..let alone professionals.

I wish I could say that no professionals were harmed in the production of my career, but I dont know that. I do apologize to any I mightve ( and will in the future) tho.

Design work...which is half technical skill and half artistic skill...and an indeterminate amount gramatical language skill...

It's the cutting grass and selling lemonade of tommorow.

But dont take that as a bad thing, its a sign of progress.

[Ladylumini]

I'm curious, where do you find clients that will pay more? Seems like a lot of people want logos for $50 in that range.

[Zuiun]

Originally posted by Ladylumini
I'm curious, where do you find clients that will pay more? Seems like a lot of people want logos for $50 in that range.

(Note: The following isn't necessarily just for logo work, but for ANY graphic design work.)

Honestly, the best way to do it is to cold call. Make yourself a list of a hundred or so businesses (all in your area). Don't pick and choose, because you'll never get your list put together -- just go at random and don't have any preconceptions about which business "sound" like they might hire a designer.

Then start calling. Pick a day and just do it -- just like it was your full-time job.

I can pretty much guarantee that you won't get through much more than 30 calls before you have not only someone willing to talk to you, but an appointment set up.

Once you get in the door and talk face-to-face, you'd pretty much have to try to blow it to not walk out with them ready to sign a contract. Business owners think their time is important -- almost none of them will meet with you unless there is something they need right away. But the kicker is that many of them never think of hiring a designer -- that's what your phone call does. It reminds them.

Now here's the thing: It "seems" like everyone wants the cheap design because that's what is saturating all of the online job banks. The companies posting on these design "auction" sites aren't the same companies that you're going to go meet when you make your calls.

When you get someone who asks how much you charge, never, NEVER give them an hourly rate (that immediately makes you sound like an amatuer). Instead, turn it around on them -- ask them what their budget is. If they say $50 bucks, well, then you know you don't want to work with them. Thank them for their time and hang up. More likely, they aren't going to know. Throw 'em a ballpark range -- "Are you looking at budgeting $10,000 or maybe $5,000 for this project...?" It's amazing how quickly they can come up with a number when you throw out one first.

Does this sound like a lot of work? Yep. You figure you might spend 2 days making phone calls (Monday and Tuesday). This might generate anywhere from 2 to 5 meetings for you for later in that week -- but these are highly qualified meetings where you are VERY likely to get design work out of them. Now, let's estimate low and say that only one of these meetings turns into work and it's a $1,000 job. But that's $1,000 resulting out of just two days of phone calls and a meeting. On the other hand, you'd have to crank out 20 $50 logo jobs to equal that, which optimistically would take a couple of months.

Pretty long-winded, but hey, you asked. ;)

For an excellent resource, visit:

http://www.freelanceworkshops.com/

That website will tell you everything you need to know about landing clients. It will even tell you exactly what to say on the phone when you make your calls and how to prepare for your meetings.

And I can personally testify that it works. :grin:

-- Zu

[McICE]

Ah....I agree with Zu, thats one way to do it.

Also...was anyone else interested in falling in on my upcoming CO in the field? We only need 24

Ever since I started that draft...it seems like most of the designers who frolicked about..on the internet..and all around the city before I thought of this...just went into hiding.

Since then, we've just kinda worked around it, but its really becoming a serious issue as we approach the deadline date.

I'm at a loss of words for it.

[Arcane-Dream]

I agree with the unreasonability of charging 50 dollars...but I dont think that all the....15 year olds of the world who start out with these kind of skills....like I myself did..should be put to pasture or sent to a concentration camp....altho I was 13 when I built my first website.....

No, of course not. I was not saying that individuals who take advantage of their gift should be prosecuted. I know, for a fact, that the IT industry is thriving, and will for quite a while, but the preliminary outer of the IT field are saturated with under priced, highly talented teenagers of which, half are not old enough to drive. Of course, a large corporation such as eBay is not going to hire anyone without CISCO, MS, or A+ certification, but the entrepreneurships will.
It is obvious the design industry is as simple as clicking a mouse--and thus has become somewhat of a joke--but it is not reasonable. Ideally, the graphic design industry would be restricted to educated people, but reality is not an idealistic paradise. The industry is open, and free to everyone, and I, nor anyone else, has the right to deny any individual his or her gift, but the very essence of ethics is being distorted, bribed, and trampled on.
My question simply is, why does a 12year old, who knows next to nothing (not to say that I know everything, however,) about how his or her action, undermine the dignity of an individual, and potentially leave one more educated person to eat crackers and dry oatmeal, not consider the results of their nieve greed (for a mere 20 or $50)? What ever happened to the newspaper deliverer? In fact, where in God's name is MY newspaper... I haven't gotten it for weeks -- my point exactly.

All in all, the going rate for a logo should be enough to support an individual (and family) for at least half a week. That is my analogy (which is futher supported by Zuiun's post).

[Base32]

Well you do have to realize that computers do give out ceritification exams in highschool. You can get you CCNA for Cisco in highschool. And you can't get it even sooner. All you need to know is what to study and where to take the test. I myself almost took the CCNA when I was like in the 6th grade, but I decided graphic design and website design is something I'm more interested in rather than Networking.
I think that your point is that children's jobs shouldn't be placed before adults. Which I disagree with, because if an adult cannot produce good work then why hire them. Its not that the companies are underminding the elders of the profession its that the teenagers still produce equal or better work. Many huge sites were started by a 13 yr old kid. N-Sane art was started by a kid who was 14. (now 15) Zymic started by a 14 yr old kid and he pulls in advertising, sells templates all the time, and so on. Thus a teenager can definetly step up to an Adult.

And any kid that does get hired for a logo design obviously is worth the money, and obviously he is aware of his action. And just because you are older does not in anyway mean you are more educated. If teenagers are good at graphic design and website design and things of that such why WASTE (not prevent) their talents on things like delivering the newspaper, which newspaper delivery is actually done by middle age men in a car not a teenager on a bike.

I think that you have a slight predujice against the youth, I'll call it agism or youthism. I think the only reason you have concern about this is that you feel threaten that teens like me are stealing your jobs, and my real response to that is this:
If you can't compete against a teenager and you feel threatened, do not compete at all. Just because people can get teenagers cheaper for the same amount of work is no reason to prevent people from blooming to their potential.

All in all, a logo's cost shouldn't be more than $50 unless of course your redesigning the logo for like Microsoft or Cisco.

[Zuiun]

Originally posted by Base32

And any kid that does get hired for a logo design obviously is worth the money, and obviously he is aware of his action. And just because you are older does not in anyway mean you are more educated. If teenagers are good at graphic design and website design and things of that such why WASTE (not prevent) their talents on things like delivering the newspaper, which newspaper delivery is actually done by middle age men in a car not a teenager on a bike.


I wouldn't say they were "obviously" worth the money.

The problem is not that there are kids out there using their talents to create logos. The problem is that a great MANY of these kids have talent coming out of their...well, you know...but they have no practical knowledge of the design industry.

I have seen countless business owners who have gone to highly talented, but woefully naive designers and who have subsequently been burned by designs that looked pretty good, but were impossible to reproduce economically, for one reason or another.

In the business of graphic design, the ability to make pretty pictures is only one small part of a much larger pool of knowledge and ability. There are aspects of reproducing design that can really only be learned either in school or by actually working in a production job (such as a print shop).

The businesses that seek out the underpriced logos are doing so because they already don't trust designers. When they get their cheap logo and it winds up difficult or even impossible to print, it only perpetuates the cycle of mistrust.

The trouble is that there are a lot of kids out there who legitimately have both the talent and knowledge when it comes to website design (where the knowledge can be relatively easily gained through inexpensive trial and error on their own sites) and then they try to bite off more than they can chew by thinking they can breeze on into other aspects of graphic design.

The bottom line is that anyone, whether they are a kid or an adult, really has no business trying to work as a graphic designer unless they have the knowledge to back up their skill.

To put it another way, it would be like a kid who happens to have a real talent for arguing, but no real knowledge of the law, trying to hire himself out as an attorney.

-- Zu

[Arcane-Dream]

I think that you have a slight predujice against the youth, I'll call it agism or youthism. I think the only reason you have concern about this is that you feel threaten that teens like me are stealing your jobs, and my real response to that is this:
If you can't compete against a teenager and you feel threatened, do not compete at all. Just because people can get teenagers cheaper for the same amount of work is no reason to prevent people from blooming to their potential.

First off, I am still a teenager, I'm still in highschool, and am too buisy with my EDUCATION to worry about other people "threaten[ing]" my 'occupation'. I am not *legally* an adult for another two months. I do, however, have a pretty good grasp on how things should and should not be done on a corporate level--based on my grade 12 university preperation credits (and later, you will wish to know that I have worked in a manufacturing environment--40hours weeks--for two summers, or 4 months).

Second of all, as both Zuiun and I have said, the graphic industry is more than just making a pretty picture. A 3year old with crayons can make a better picture than a lot of adults, but their knowledge is nothing more than personal feeling. Take for example, a recent high school graduate and put him in a factory; without instruction, he may find out how to do his job, but he is, or is not (a) following protocol; (b) being proficient; (c) considering the integrity of a part; (d) following rules; (e) slowing down the production; (f) endangering the safety of both the end-client, his fellow employees, and himself; et al...

Moreover, the actual comprehension of the situation may not be fully entailed in a youth. Legal clauses are often overwhelming for even a graduate JP, forget gambling with the law at such a young age. Of course, the actual elements and principles of design may be inherent in an individual, but the actual understanding of aesthetics and how marketing is approached cannot be more than analyzed through second hand sources or illegitimate third party resources.

Education exists for a reason. I would most certainly not hire a 13year old to represent me in a criminal investigation no more so than would I for a complete, full-out ecommerce application.

I am not singling out any individual here, nor am I telling you to remain stagnant, but I do recommend that education is entailed before assuming your comprehension and knowledge. I have not started school yet (but am sure of acceptance), but I have the maturity and comprehension within to understand the risks involved, of all--primary, secondary, and unnamed tertiary--entities.

The trouble is that there are a lot of kids out there who legitimately have both the talent and knowledge when it comes to website design (where the knowledge can be relatively easily gained through inexpensive trial and error on their own sites)
I want to step in before this is misconstrued. The knowledge that can be relatively easily gained is often not really knowledge. Coming up with a website (even one that has database interactivity) is not much to be (well, I won't say proud) boastful about if it is programmed by an application (such as dreamweaver or other such WYSIWYG). Programming is an art, which has rules and standards to be followed. Although the SGML languages are not really *programming* languages, they do add a pretty good statement to your resume.

Website DESIGN is not website programming. A teenager who can whip up a pretty picture and put it on the Internet may be something to look at, but to use is a different story. The world of Internet technology is a world of security, concurrency, interactivity, processing, bandwidth, bytes, and so much more. This legitimate talent is not legitimate, it is assumed. A Web Design course in a post secondary institution is generally 1 year (at most). A course in Internet Technology is generally a 3-5 year course, and Internet Security itself is a 5year course. Trial and error is simply not enough for such large-scale applications. As I said before, education exists for a purpose (notwithstanding economic gain for the schools).

When the 15 year old is able to tell his employer what exactly concurrency is without access to the internet, then he or she might be someone to look into, provided he or she knows RSA from DES, is able to write database connectivity program (not script) without looking at a tutorial, knows the difference between an object and a business object, a constant from a variable, isolated storage from a datasource, and linux from ntfs--and how to write a Systems Analyst Report.

[Base32]

AWWW! Now I see were you'll are coming from. Which now I agree with you and I apologize for my misunderstanding. Although not all teenagers are like that. There are many classes that teach design "protocols" or how-to, something like that. But I do agree that many teenagers do not take these classes, as I have not. So I am with you on the fact that many teenagers although great artist are not 100% professionals. But some people don't want a professional some what a passoniate artist. If I was a consumer I would hire someone who enjoys their job rather than mourns of being stuck on a computer, just because the creativity would be much higher.

I don't think you can say they have their talent coming out of their...you know. Because art is art. There is no good art or bad art really. There is only art that appeals to you or art that doesn't.

Now I also agree Website DESIGN is not Website PROGRAMMING. Because your right there is a big difference. And the Computer Industry is VERY diverse. But lots of kids do know about bandwidth, bytes, interactivity, and all those you listed. Many just learn these things because it gives something to show off, and they have to moniter their site so their host doesn't suspend them. These kids aren't only learning about how to make a pretty interface and things, they are also learning a lot about coding, and I wouldn't doubt that several of these kids go on to become egineers and occupations of that such. There are kids that know about OC48 servers and how to shut them down, and I even have a "friend" whose decided to actually shut one down and recieved computer probation. (Mind you this was when he was 12 or 13.)

Your right trial and error is not enoguh for large-scale applications, you have to know exactly what your doing. But from my experience just playing with things on my site and just things on my computer, I feel very comfortable doing something like that. So many kids probably could right a program without a tutorial, not a tutorial that advanced that would take a few classes lol. But you can take semester classes(just one semester) that will teach you a lot about networking, that will teach you how to write System Analyst Reports, will teach the difference between a constant and a variable(that isn't hard at all, any kid whose touched PHP would know that.)
So kids can learn these things, and several kids do take these classes not all of course, some would rather stick to it as a hobby, rather than making something out of their skills.

I would say the only things that seperate an educated adult from a hobbist teenager is that a teenager would show more pride and more passion in the things he produces for people rather than an adult. An adult sticks to a more template that is built into their thinking.

A teenager might not be interested in expanding their skills. An adult would just due to job promotions.
A teenager may use inspiration(music, other sites, movies, so on). An adult would not they would have a certain thinking process to use.

So really I would say they are both equal and if the only thing that would give one leverage over the other is: how much they are willingly to work for, and wether their willing to work at all.

[iambennu]

I will have to agree with all sort of. When I first started in Graphics I would charge very little, but as you come into your own as a artist and business that changes.

I charge by the client and what I feel they can afford. In that I have a high price which is a price that I would feel good about charging for a piece of work. In the case of a logo. 100 to 200 if I just had to render it for different mediums. 200 to 500 if I have to come up with the concept. More if it involves creating a whole corporate or business Identity.

Then I work down from there. skimming off here and there for clients that I like to do business with. The pleasure is the balance of the payment

Hope the helps some.:angel:


Now a PS. I just bought a new system (with one of those Logo checks):) and I am have been trying to access my profile for this site to post from the other machine, but cannot.
I just get the message: You are not logged or you are not required.

any suggest please email me at iamArt@bellsouth.net
thanks

[McICE]

Like I said, no professional should ( or would) feel truly threatened by a prodigy.

I never once took peanuts for my work, because I learned about how pricing is, in part, a symbol of ones pride in their work.

Like I said before.....these kind of jobs, that require half technical know how..and half artistic skill, will be the cutting grass and paperroutes of tommorow.

It isn't a matter of a person's age, whether or not they know what they're doing. It's a matter of exposure to information.

For instance, if American schools readjusted their curriculum to systemaically teaching advanced math and physics, then you'd kick out more physicists and engineers than you know what to do with. What you demand from your young people...most will rise to. How do I know that?...I am proof.

I owe my knowledge in the fields of graphic, and web design to abou two or three people who gave me resources that I wouldn't have gotten normally....and a chance.

Personally, I'd be welcoming children into the field. Why? well...naturally they wouldnt be chosen for larger things....and their very presence makes less room in the industry for competiton of any kind....and so if you are a real pro, you'd have the young ones squeezing out your low level competition, but leaving the advanced work for you and your level.

That and...it shows that at least a small part of today's children are taking interest in something other than...the latest gym shoes or...music videos full time.

You know...I just thought of an interesting conflict.

I see ow one can be hesitant to charge upper level prices, and some people handle that by charging one price for some people...another for others.

While it is a decent solution...sound as it may be....I just remebered...that's illegal.

I don't remember which law specifically,( and I dont feel like filing through my business economics book right now), but the Feds would be all over any person they got word of doing that.

I'll have to get bavk to yuo all about which law....but I just thought people wouldve been interested in knowing that

[Zuiun]

Originally posted by McICE

You know...I just thought of an interesting conflict.

I see ow one can be hesitant to charge upper level prices, and some people handle that by charging one price for some people...another for others.

While it is a decent solution...sound as it may be....I just remebered...that's illegal.

I don't remember which law specifically,( and I dont feel like filing through my business economics book right now), but the Feds would be all over any person they got word of doing that.

I'll have to get bavk to yuo all about which law....but I just thought people wouldve been interested in knowing that

I think you are confusing specific product pricing with graphics pricing. In the field of graphic design, you really can't place a flat value on all projects.

When my clients want, say a logo design, I don't tell them "well, I charge x amount of money for logos." It's a process. I find out their budget. I factor in how much time it will take me. I try to find out what other special needs the client has. I also find out how much the client can do on their end after the fact -- for instance, some clients have their own designer and I can simply turn over the vectored file with colors noted. On the other hand, other clients can't do anything, and I will have to turn over files for every use of the logo -- vectored, TIFFs, web graphics, etc., and I may even need to spend time communicating with the client's print vendors.

When all is said and done, I may have worked with two different clients on two different logos that have the same essential structure (symbol, logo type, etc.), but I may have billed $1,500 to one client and $15,000 to the other.

There is nothing unethical or illegal about it -- it all boils down to creating a price based on all of the factors involved in the creation of the design.

This is why it's a bad idea to tell clients your hourly rate or to even try to set up any sort of "pricing page." Each project is different from the last and each one will be billed different. The only important thing about an hourly rate is to give the designer a clue about how much to charge based upon how long the project will take.

The bottom line is that clients really don't care how much you charge by the hour. The only thing that matters to them is how much the final bill will be and whether or not that fits their budget.

-- Zu

[McICE]

I think youre right....th law Im talking about I think speficially applies to goods...Im not sure if it applies to services, tho.

[AsylumX]

Well, not to drag this thread on further than has already has been, there's some confusion over word choice that's making this thread look like a Destruction Derby filled with Driving Instructors - you guys aren't hitting anything!

In this discussion it's essential to separate logo and identity as two completely separate things. First off, creating a "logo" for a non-professional organization (i.e. gaming website, fansite, etc.) should usually be looked at as a service done for a nominal fee as realistically, you're not really performing a professional job anyhow...not in the correct aspect of the word at least. Generally jobs like this are done as favors more than anything, and if you consistently design this genre of sites and nothing else, please do not consider yourself a designer....a humanitarian perhaps since you are saving the professionals from being hassled by low-paying "clients" and decreasing the level of website ugliness by at least one degree. So thank you...I think.

On the other hand, when dealing with professional organizations ( i.e. Profit or Non-Profit Organizations, corporations, small businesses, entrepreneurs, etc.) they are generally looking for what's called an "Identity" - not only is this a logo, this is how people view the company. It's on letterheads, business cards, the website, and so on. It's everywhere! And it creates a sense of recognition in their clients that are consistently exposed to said logo/identity. In other words - it's a big fucking deal, and should cost accordingly.



oh and as per the whole legality issue on different prices for different people. If I sell a soda to a black man for a dollar, and a white man for a quarter, I'm gonna have every racial activist and decent human being at my front door with the Feds right behind them. But if you try to apply this to a service which is reasonably justified for being a different price...good luck.

Here's something that may help you see this correctly - if Johnny Depp does an independent film, he's going to paid very little, basically because the independent film company can't afford a large salary, even though he's doing the same service as he would for a large movie production company...but don't you think he gets paid millions for starring in a Tim Burton film? Of course he does, because the production company is finacially able to afford this salary, and because it's more important to the large production company that they have him star....just like it's more important for that well-paying client of yours to have a well-done identity created than for the smaller company.

[DigitalDoodler]

Excellent points Asylum!

[Notoriaz]

I get paid in chickens and cattle.

[pullmyfinger]

whatever u do don't undercut yourself. take a look at the business you're selling it to. try to think about how your designs with distinguish them from their competitors and does it reflect the right image to attract the right kinds of customers. there's a lot of 'graphic work' out there in the car customizing industry that's pretty hack job work, u can tell it was done by an amateur. ask yourself: is this the kind of shop i am designing for? or does my work give the shop the ability to charge higher prices for their work? if the answer is yes to the 2nd one, don't even *think* about letting that logo go for less than $500. and even then, that's still pretty cheap. hiring a good designer is more than just getting a flashy design; a designer is responsible for making sure that the logo is multipurpose and serves its intended client in the best way possible. people are always going to want to undercut your prices but if you do that 2 things are going to happen: 1) they'll never value your work and 2) they'll keep trying to take advantage of you. you need sometimes to learn to say no, and think about it like this -- do u really want to work for people like that anyway?

[Ephraim]

Hrm. So much to read. So little that I'm interested in...

My firm's design fee is $80/hour.

[aap411vm]

My designing and programming is like $30 a hour. But most of the programming i did already make. so it's just copy paste work.. and get for 10 hours work then $450

[jdcreative]

I came on here seeing if I was charging to much for logos. I charge between 300-700 to start up business' that I believe will do well.

Ive also been doing this for about 5 yrs. So If you consider yourself a professional designer please start charging more. If we keep going lower we will all be out of a job.

thanks jeff

[blue2x]

i got 400 usd for a logo project , u could go for 50 too , its adaptive depending the client, always raise higher, then try to adjust, remember , the lower the pay, the lesser the concepts

[mitchellson]

I just started making logo's for friends & just random people. I never charged or nothing like that, but I got an email from a friend & he said his cousins Record label needed a logo. So I'm just wondering how much I should charge for the logo I made?? Please someone get back to me A.S.A.P.

[ajolivier]

if you are a professional, and will providing multiple logo proofs for them to choose from, I would charge between 250-600

[Keys N Bass]

it really depends on your skill level and quality of overall product you can provide.. be it $20-$3,000..


the client can usually gauge how good a product is by factoring in the price.. think of it this way, someone looking for Bang & Olfsen sound quality is hardly gonna purchase an Alba cassette radio from his local market and expect anything more than what he just paid for..


same rules apply in life..

[theplatypus]

Cheap design is not good, and good design is not cheap. I think that's a quote somewhere on here. You bet your ass my time is worth more than 40 dollars an hour. I spend more time researching the company and competitors rather than designing. The more information you have, the better the logo. Duality in the logo is key. At a minimum, 200 dollars. There's a lot of processes that go into a logo design... at least that's what I would hope. I don't believe a graphic designer should make something because it looks good.

Design should be in the service of the statement, not the other way around. Communication is what it's all about. That's worth more than 100 dollars.

[doorknob]

the bigger the company the more you charge. you are coming up with an IDENTITY that people should recognize in a glance and should charge LOTS!

family - free
friends - $$$hundred or less
an event - $$$hundred or more
small company - $$$hundreds
big company - $$$thousands

...that's if you put out quality work of course. when people are dirt cheap with their prices it waters down the industry and those that actually put in time doing research/background and pick the EXACT font and layout/positioning are getting slapped in the face with 5 bux? :(

[aarathi]

I really dont know much, but i think it should be dependent on how well known the company is.

[doorknob]

if you are doing it for a new company or small one in the early years, dont charge them an arm and a leg but try to get some royaltys when they start makin money.

[visualriddle]

family - free
friends - $$$hundred or less
an event - $$$hundred or more
small company - $$$hundreds
big company - $$$thousands



I'd second that.

[Cone Graff]

So you would charge different prices for doing the same job??

[visualriddle]

Yes - which is what graphic design trade books also suggest.

However, this isn't technically true (they aren't the 'same job') - the amount of work that each job requires should be different (drastically, in some cases). For example, a friends/family job or small event is often a one-time low impact job which will only be used a few times. Where as a small-med business logo will take more interviewing time with the client, more market research, more concepts and trials. And a large company - well, a huge amount of pre-production work may go into this logo, and given the marketability and profitability of that branding (if done right), the company should be paying for that.

So while a 'logo' will be a different price for the different client, the actual jobs should not be the same.

[Cone Graff]

Well true, the amount of time you put into a job is different, and therefor should be charged different.

However, just because a job is small doesn't nessecarily means is quickly done. Ever had a client who kept coming back with changes. How would you charge for that?

To sum up. Make an rate per hour. And charge by that

[visualriddle]

Presumably, there's a contract. You can define what is 'excessive' in terms of revisions and then charge per hour on anything that's beyond the original cost.

Or you can charge a variable package rate, ie. $250 - $500 based on the designer's discretion. So the client knows the max it can pay, but will probably pay somewhere in the middle, unless the job is really simple, or difficult. Same with $500 (+/- 20%) or something similar.

Usually a rule is '3 sets of revisions'.

[Dre]

Cone, I have found that the smaller projects are typically the bigger pain in the arse.

Always set a comp count, be firm on pricing, and put it into a written agreement. Your portfolio and sales skills will get you the job, people will pay more for good work.

[Cone Graff]

I agree. Usually the big companies has a marketing director who knows to leave the visual stuff up to the creative. And trust the him to give the best.

The owner of a small company thinks he knows everything and particular how to do your shit. And has way too many oppinions about stuff he is not really qualified to suggest.

[eos]

i hate freelancing for little mom and pop companies... especially young fuckers who can't make their minds up

[Dre]

It's all part of the project management process. It is a two way street meaning, the customer will have expectations but you as the designer/developer should too.